Is a “podcast” still a podcast?

At one point I thought I had a handle on what a podcast was. It definitely wasn’t a radio show, although a podcast might be played on the radio, or a radio show might had a quick edit to make it ready for podcasting. This wasn’t totally about semantics, I felt (and still do) that podcasts were different. We consume them differently and they operate in a different space. On a basic level this means a podcaster could make their show whatever length they wanted to and use whatever language they wanted without the worry of what a regular might say. To an extent this was more an encouragement for folks in radio to treasure what they have, rather than make it all sound the same. Not everyone agreed with me but over time most people seemed to agree that radio and podcasts were different. The war was over. Viva la podcast. But whilst we were busy defending the Western Front something was sneaking up behind us. Video.

Of course, video podcasts have always been there. The RSS framework has never distinguished between audio and video and producers have been using it to distribute video podcasts since the start. The problem with has always been the size of the files. This means hosting them is expensive, users had to wait longer for files to download, and their device had to have a screen. It’s perhaps understandable, then, that most podcasters preferred to grab a USB microphone and so from there; rather than build a video studio and know that a chunk of the audience might never see it. So, for most of it’s history podcasting has been an audio medium. Book after book talk about listeners. This audio-rich landscape gave way to things like Serial and whole catalogue of immersive, crafted audio work. Yet, in 2025 the conversation is about video. It seems, audiences quite like and certain platforms would like us the believe that video is not the best way to consume a podcast, it’s the future of the medium. Of course, we could easily just roll our eyes and gently shake our heads wondering why we’re getting into binary debate about what is and what is not a podcast. Maybe, it doesn’t matter. Maybe, it’s whatever the audience says it is and trying to pin it down is a futile task that will never settled. Perhaps.

In my recent work I’ve tried not so much to put things in a box but try and ask the right questions and work why we are where we’re at and what that might mean. Perhaps, rather than being one thing podcasting is a space inhabited by different interpretations of an idea. It might be an evolving term that will constantly shift over time, directed and influenced by an array of actors (each with a stake in the game), or maybe it’s a form of media that cuts across media and could be a video, an audio production, a live stream, or an event. We could also just raise the white flag and accept it is what it is and if you want to call that 1 hour rant you just recorded on your ‘phone and posted on social media a podcast then maybe that’s fine too. But it does matter. Academics often rely on definitions, not least because we need to teach this stuff. If we ask students to make podcasts, do we let them define what they hand in or are there some boundaries? Perhaps more importantly we also need to ask who benefits in any change in status? Does adding video add to the sum total of the experience? Is it a response to something the audience want, need, or demand? (and if so, how do we know?) or is this something those with a particular stake would like to see?

For a recent conference paper I revisited an early study and checked to see if there was any correlation between chart position and the use of video. In short, there is. However, we should note that chart positions are often the product of where attention is being drawn and, clearly, video helps with attention. There are a few key points here:
– EVERY top 10 show on Spotify is on YouTube. More use video than don’t. 
– Only 6 of the top Spotify shows are top 10 on Apple (as audio)
– On all cases the microphone is visible 
– A visual ‘look’ is emerging
– Dominated by conversational podcasts 
– 7 of the UK shows on Spotify between #11 and #20 were available as video

Now, these shows might be popular because audiences want video, or because video helps increase time spent watching/listening and the so the shows do well. There’s even some suggestion that video works well for discovery, so viewers might be dipping into these shows and then listening later on. Basically, there’s a lot we don’t know.

Open Podcasting and Closed Systems

When we look back at the past of podcasting what we are effectively talking about is RSS supported open podcasting, where files around delivered to users using open-sourced infrastructure. In this world the podcaster makers their show, uploads it to a single hosting service that then shares their files across a myriad of apps. This many-to-many approach has been the secret to podcasting. If there is a message in the medium of podcasting, it’s about openess. This openess meant that anyone could make a podcast and they did so free of the conventions of previous media. McLuhan also has a name for this, he called it the ‘anti environment’ a space that exists outside of the establishment where rules are broken. These broken rules became the rules that set the tone for what we have today. Podcasting loves the anti-environment. The lack of gatekeepers let podcasters do their own thing and from that sprung a whole generation of shows that would not have a found a home in broadcast media. It is also important to remember that podcasting predates YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter(X). So, does the changing status of podcasting change the nature of the medium, or as it formalises does it lock-in those earlier formats?

The founding fathers did a good job in making sure that their baby wasn’t owned by anyone. This has made it resilient and largely impervious to whatever happens in the financial markets. However, it also means that it’s vulnerable to corporate interests and their version of what podcasting is. This brings us to where podcasting is now. Although you can listen to (most) podcasts on any one of a dozen or more apps that you can find on your app store, the majority of listening is one of three platforms; with more and more folks choosing YouTube. Along with Spotify, they are positioning themselves as the true home for podcasts and video as being the natural evolution of podcasting. In their world, podcasts are watched and RSS is outdated.

What does it all mean?

What it means is things are changing. Audiences are increasingly saying they are watching podcasts, with at least study claiming GenZ consumers only watch podcasts. Whilst across all users (or Edison prefer ‘consumers’) more people are listening rather than just watching but many are doing both and this makes sense as more and more shows appear as video as well as audio. What we don’t know if whether these video users are paying attention, or whether people are flipping between tabs or even flipping between media on the go. In theory, a Spotify user could start watching a show on their TV and then pick up the same episode later on as audio whilst getting the bus and keeping their ‘phone safely in their pocket.

A few things might be happening here. The first is about the way platforms work. It’s important to bear in mind that open podcasting is an anti-platform ecosystem. If a show gets deleted from one directory, it still exists. If the app you have been using decides to close, you can easily hop over to another. You can even have multiple apps and listen to the same (or different) shows in each of them. In this world, the podcasters manage their own affairs and their content is not exclusive and listeners get the show wherever they like. The platforms would like own that pipeline exclusively, or at least to own a reason for consumers to, er, consume the show on their platform. This might mean making the show exclusive, but now it might be about offering a video version. The problem (if it is one) here is that what they a podcast is not what we might typically think a podcast is. On YouTube, channels can add a podcast tab and post content there. This might be content ingested in via an RSS feed, where audio shows can be imported as they appear – although not (currently) video. But, it equally might be a video the producer thinks is a podcast but lacks the RSS feed. So, I can watch it on YouTube but I can’t listen to it anywhere. Both Spotify and YouTube are positioning themselves as the home for podcasts and video as the future. Perhaps in 2025 a podcast is whatever the platforms would like it to be. There might also be a trend here where the new arrivals into podcasting are content creators more used to visual spaces like YouTube or Instagram. That brings with a different aesthetic and different set of expectations.

Of course, all of this might speak to a more fluid definition of what a podcast is; one that is less worried about platforms or modes of production. It’s a look, an experience, a vibe. It’s two or more people chatting in front of some cool looking microphones. Their conversation feels authentic, unfettered by time, rules, or the sensibilities of broadcasting. We might listen to this, watch it over and over period of an hour or more on YouTube, or see clips on social media. We might even sit in a theatre and see it live. It’s all podcasting. In this, a certain look is emerging and maybe we know a podcast when we see it. It should come as no surprise then that amongst the clips of real podcasts that we when scrolling through social media are a tonne of fake podcasts – adverts with a podcast vibe selling us stuff. I guess, we’ve had this news bulletins or chat shows in the past, but all this points to having a cultural meaning.

In his academic work Tiziano Bonini has suggested we think of not podcasting not as radio vs podcasting but a hybrid cultural form. In looking at podcasting in this current setting, we can see this in action. It’s neither one thing not another but a constant negotiation between actors – podcasters, listeners, networks, platforms, app, bloggers, etc etc. A medium shaped socially that remediates different media forms. Initially radio but now video. Podcasting is (yet again) refusing to constrained by definitions but this slipperiness is problematic. Firstly, in video the conversation dominates. Crafted documentary and news are harder to migrate – although not impossible. The News Agents do a decent job at creating video episodes, as do others. Drama, however, is a much harder ask. Pictures add complexity and complexity costs money. Perhaps what we are talking about is an engagement of the field of play. At one stage a few shows were in play, mostly created by amateurs but then bigger networks and established media got involved and we went from a tennis court to a football pitch. Actually, it might be more of a park, where different games were at play in the same space. There are formalised shows with big budgets, video chats, and still some folks who just churn out shows because they genuinely love it. In the past everyone did their own thing, but it was mostly all audio. As video content creators come in the field just a whole lot bigger. More people doing more stuff, which great… but only part of the pitch has floodlights and seating and they’re getting all the attention. That becomes a problem if they are defining what a podcast is.

One regular argument against defining podcasting is that it puts it in a box and given how things change that might be a futile task. It’s an argument I appreciate but still reject. Our personal definition has always been shaped by our environment. Was our first show the Daily Source Code? Serial? Joe Rogan? Are we listening to niche shows that a friend told us about, or the latest hit show that we’ve heard about online? This self-selection often means our consumption patterns and therefore our perception is influenced by external and internal factors. But an over arching definition might help those who need to sell or explain the medium. Perhaps podcasting is ‘an audio first on-demand medium, made up of serialised content delivered (mostly) for free using open protocols. For their part, the agency Oxford Road define podcasting as ‘An audio-driven on-demand program rooted in the spoken word. Typically episodic and
conversational, podcasts cover wide-ranging themes and formats. They are accessed via
open RSS feeds or other distribution platforms and often supplemented by video’ Noting that term is open for debate but will benefit from the stability definitions can bring; not least for marketeers. Neatly, they suggest that podcasts work when we close our eyes. I like this. Many shows in video use the word ‘listeners’ a lot, but still might share an odd glance with the camera. Others recognise that their audience could be watching or could be listening and take care not to exclude. This feels like a stance that respects the audience and the past. However, the group we could call content creator immigrants see podcasts as an annex to video platforms and take a ‘video first’ approach where audio feels secondary to the pictures. This is, perhaps, where pinning down definitions (and making sure the community keep owning the term) becomes important. Podcasting should be something that has some defining features rather than simply a term we can throw about at whim. This devalues the world a lot of folks have worked hard to build.

Where does this leave us? The nature of podcasting is changing. Video is a key part of the landscape now, but rather than being delivered via RSS this is video podcasting 2.0, a platform dependent streamed version of the original form. It is well-lit, staged, and reflects modern design. This does change the aesthetic but there are still discernible traits around nice content, unconstrained runtime, and a clear sense of authenticity. It’s these qualities that, perhaps, define podcasting. I do not want to argue that podcasting should ignore its audio past but nor do I want to reject the idea that you can watch a podcast but we need to question the motivations of those who are pushing us away from the open podcasting origins. More content is great. More opportunities are good news too. Podcasting is a big field and can get bigger. But let’s keep researching. Let’s ask better questions and let’s still work on defining what it is we are doing.